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Published Sep 28, 21
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Well, thank you quite. I wish to offer you all a break for a minute as well as resort to Mr. Swartz. You've been extremely patient, the three of you. I appreciate that very much. Usually, we would have had 2 panels, yet we didn't recognize exactly how the Us senate would certainly be operating today, so in an effort to see to it we made it through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you mention in your testament and your declarations that the treaty with Bermuda also pierces financial institution secrecy and provides a mechanism for us getting the information we require. There have actually been some shared legal aid treaties that consist of stipulations relevant directly to sharing financial institution records or other monetary info.

Swartz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When it come to that certain problem, the board might be describing the reasonably new arrangement that shows up, for example, in our E.U.-U.S. Mutual Legal Support Treaty, the recognition of financial institution records arrangement. That was an arrangement that was prepared as well as adopted in the context of the E.U.

Under that arrangement, it's feasible for the requesting party to inquire regarding whether an account exists in the requested country, or when it comes to the E.U., one of the requested member states. But, afterwards, the demand, if there is a recognition of an account, should be followed up with a common shared lawful help treaty.

And with regard to Bermuda, our document of participation has actually been great. Our team believe that the record we have on the manufacturing of records, consisting of bank records, is such that we are certain that the arrangements consisted of in this shared legal help treaty, which do require participation on the manufacturing of records, will suffice to make sure that we obtain the documents we need for our financial examinations and also other investigations.

Some various other MLATs likewise permit urgent, non-written type requests to be made. It's my understanding that in Bermuda, it has to be in written kind. Any type of reason that that arrangement was not included in this agreement? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, while it is real that the Shared Lawful Assistance Treaty does require demands in written form, it was the judgment of the mediators that it was adequate that, in this situation, when it come to Bermuda, we would certainly have the ability to get prompt responses to our demands and additionally give such actions to Bermuda's demands, especially because we have a method already established that will certainly continue, our company believe, under the treaty of being able to communicate those demands with email or via fax.

Senator Cardin. Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda resisted that because they wished to make certain that the demands were clear as well as in an extra official way. Yet in the settlements, it likewise came to be clear that they approved that such request might be made by fax or by e-mail. The actual problem they were worried about was not finding a quick methods to make a demand, but truly simply taking oral demands off the table.

So we're certain that we've obtained the methods in location that we can make urgent requests of them in a method that will certainly work. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I might add, in fact, while it is a benefit to be able to make dental requests, in method, it's extremely uncommon that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. Mr. Johnson, do have any kind of remarks on the bank records concern? Mr. Johnson.

The distinction in between being able to do a dental request or having the ability to use among these various other extremely quick means, we think, is not consequential. Legislator Cardin. There have actually been some issues elevated concerning the competence of Bermuda law relative to loss of profits and also agencies of criminal offenses.

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Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we are. Of training course, the growth of loss regulation is a crucial as well as dynamic matter. We've seen a variety of adjustments over the course of the years, including below in the United States. Yet the Shared Lawful Assistance Treaty in Post 17 does obligate Bermuda to provide assistance to the United States in process connecting to loss of earnings and also instrumentalities of criminal offense, to the level permitted by the regulation of Bermuda.

We've had two examples of effective demands for restraint as well as loss of assets. Both circumstances were a success as well as we were able to obtain the funds. As a general issue, aid is available under the laws of Bermuda, as well as I do think that's essential to tension, when it come to freezing, seizing, and restraining assets, including for matters associating with terrorism and terrorism funding.

Yet it ought to be kept in mind that loss support is not restricted to what is allowed under Bermuda's domestic law. When it come to a UNITED STATE order, Bermuda can not waive a specific instrumentality of nondrug offenses, because that power does not exist locally. Yet again, that's restricted to agencies in nondrug infraction instances.

Legislator Cardin. Thank you. Let me simply ask the general concern, and any kind of one of you can react to it. In the Bermuda agreement, there's a stipulation that is not strange to us, where Bermuda can refute participation in resources instances. We recognize, I understand that, so I'm not being important of that arrangement being included therein.

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Are we impeded as an outcome of that or is there a method in which we are able to cooperate under this treaty, also in those situations? Mr. Chairman, we think as well as we hope we still would certainly be able to work together.

As a matter of fact, we have that experience with other nations that have put similar analyses on the common lawful help responsibilities, and also we have actually been able to work out setups in a number of instances that enable us to get evidence or go over whether the evidence is significant enough to move forward with some kind of additional steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Legislator, if I might simply include in that, among the factors this treaty took as long it did to negotiate as well as end is due to the fact that it was essential to us to ensure that there wasn't an express constraint on assistance in capital cases in the treaty itself.

Swartz relevant to you. Which means we believe that helps keep the concept that is very important to us, that such participation ought to be offered, irrespective of the sort of case. As well as we believe this has also borne out with a few other nations, where even with comparable concerns regarding cooperation in funding cases, they have, as an example, had the ability to provide assistance to the nonpenalty stage of a test or an additional party examination.

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They do hold the right under this treaty to refute cooperation where the United States criminal justice system is seeking funding punishment? Legislator, they hold the right under the treaty to not offer assistance in situations that are contrary to public plan or their important passions, and they have actually told us that they interpret that to permit them, in fatality charge cases, to exercise that.

I just wanted to make it clear that they would not be a violation of the treaty. We understand their interpretation, that if there was a situation pending below that we required their assistance, where, clearly, the district attorneys were seeking the death charge, Bermuda could determine not to coordinate under this treaty.

Swartz. If I might claim, Mr. Chairman, importantly, the treaty would call for, considering that this would certainly be a rejection under Post 3 of the treaty, that first there had to be assessments with the United States, prior to that denial can go onward. And I assume that's a vital element of the arrangement that Mr.

Rather than having an explicit provision, this is one of a collection of problems under which aid may be denied after examination, and also, to name a few points, that there have to be factor to consider regarding whether support can be given, subject to such conditions as the requested nation deems required. And also our experience in that regard has actually been that we frequently can discover appropriate assurances to permit proof to be created, at the very least for preliminary evaluation of the importance of proof in the event generally.

As well as I assume that would certainly be valuable for us to have that information in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. foreign tax credit. We would certainly rejoice to supply that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest task below, because this arrangement was formerly approved by this committee. As I claimed in my opening, we authorized it also late in the 111th Congress for activity.

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Have there been any kind of significant adjustments in our financial investment connection with Rwanda given that last November when you gave testimony on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have seen given that last November is an increase in United States investment in Rwanda, and also I can offer you a few instances.

Additionally, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is mosting likely to open a significant resort in Kigali. And, also, Marriott Hotels is entering to facilitate the country's growing hospitality market. I would certainly claim that, given this pattern of enhanced financial investment, that it is vital that the securities be managed for them.

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investors. Senator Cardin. I thanks for that (foreign tax credit). You also mentioned the fact that the United States is checking out various other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I think you stated another nation. I assume we have 5 present reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show us various other nations that the United States has revealed rate of interest in negotiating treaties? Ms.

Senator Cardin. Thank you. I've been told by the team that I need to ask the question of whether the management still sustains the Us senate approval of the Rwanda treaty, given that it was held over from the last Congress. For the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Legislator Cardin.



I think that finishes the questioning. We may have some added concerns for the document. As you understand, the document continues to be open for 24 hr, so you obtain a break. That's a quite rapid turnaround time for this committee. However I do appreciate your perseverance with the committee and thank you significantly for your testimony today.

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As set out below, we would certainly like to provide upgraded information on reported UNITED STATE investment activity in Rwanda. In 2009, the supply of UNITED STATE foreign straight investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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As well as I think that would certainly be practical for us to have that information in this committee. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest job below, considering that this agreement was previously accepted by this committee. As I stated in my opening, we accepted it as well late in the 111th Congress for action.

Have there been any type of considerable modifications in our financial investment connection with Rwanda given that last November when you provided testament on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have seen considering that last November is a boost in United States investment in Rwanda, as well as I can provide you a few instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major hotel in Kigali. And also, additionally, Marriott Hotels is going in to facilitate the nation's expanding friendliness sector. So I would certainly claim that, offered this pattern of increased investment, that it is necessary that the protections be managed for them.

You also pointed out the fact that the United States is checking out various other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I assume we have five existing bilateral investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us various other countries that the United States has revealed passion in working out treaties?

I think that finishes the examining. I do value your patience with the board and also thank you very a lot for your testimony today.

Solution. As established out below, we would love to provide updated info on reported UNITED STATE financial investment activity in Rwanda. Besides these updates, the responses supplied by the Department's witness in the 111th Congress stay precise. In 2009, the supply of UNITED STATE foreign direct investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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