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Published Oct 23, 21
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I want to offer you all a break for a moment and also turn to Mr. Swartz. Usually, we would have had two panels, however we really did not understand just how the Senate would be running today, so in an effort to make certain we obtained via all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you explain in your testimony as well as your statements that the treaty with Bermuda likewise punctures bank secrecy as well as gives a mechanism for us getting the info we require. There have actually been some common legal assistance treaties which contain stipulations associated straight to sharing financial institution documents or various other financial information.

Swartz. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. With respect to that certain issue, the committee may be describing the fairly brand-new provision that appears, for instance, in our E.U.-U.S. Mutual Legal Help Treaty, the recognition of bank documents provision. That was a provision that was prepared and taken on in the context of the E.U.

Under that provision, it's feasible for the asking for event to look for info regarding whether an account exists in the asked for country, or in the situation of the E.U., one of the asked for participant states. But, afterwards, the demand, if there is a recognition of an account, have to be adhered to up via a standard common lawful assistance treaty.

As well as with respect to Bermuda, our record of cooperation has actually been great. Our company believe that the record we have on the production of records, including bank documents, is such that we are positive that the stipulations included in this shared legal support treaty, which do need cooperation on the manufacturing of documents, will suffice to make sure that we obtain the documents we need for our economic investigations and also various other examinations.

Some other MLATs additionally enable for urgent, non-written form demands to be made. Mr. Chairman, while it is true that the Common Legal Support Treaty does need requests in written kind, it was the judgment of the arbitrators that it sufficed that, in this instance, with respect to Bermuda, we would certainly be able to get prompt reactions to our demands as well as additionally supply such actions to Bermuda's demands, specifically because we have a method currently developed that will continue, we believe, under the treaty of being able to communicate those requests through e-mail or via fax.

Senator Cardin. Was this, generally, a choice made by UNITED STATE arbitrators, that it was not needed, recognizing just how we can swiftly obtain faxes and also e-mails sent out? Is that fair enough to say, or not? Mr. Johnson. Legislator, if I can assist on that particular one? Legislator Cardin. Sure. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda resisted that since they intended to ensure that the demands were clear and in a more official means. In the settlements, it also came to be clear that they accepted that such request could be made by fax or by e-mail. The actual concern they were worried concerning was not discovering a fast means to make a request, but really just taking oral demands off the table.

So we're certain that we have actually got the ways in position that we can make urgent requests of them in a manner that will certainly be efficient. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I might include, as a matter of fact, while it is an advantage to be able to make oral demands, in technique, it's really rare that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. Mr. Johnson, do have any type of remarks on the financial institution documents problem? Mr. Johnson.

The difference between having the ability to do a dental request or having the ability to make use of one of these other really fast ways, we think, is not substantial. Legislator Cardin. There've been some problems raised about the competence of Bermuda law with regard to loss of earnings and also instrumentalities of criminal offenses.

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Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we are. Certainly, the growth of forfeit regulation is an essential and also progressive issue. We have actually seen a number of adjustments over the course of the years, including below in the United States. The Common Lawful Help Treaty in Post 17 does obligate Bermuda to provide assistance to the United States in procedures relating to forfeiture of proceeds and agencies of criminal activity, to the level allowed by the law of Bermuda.

We've had two examples of successful demands for restriction and also loss of properties. Both instances were a success and we were able to obtain the funds. As a basic matter, support is available under the legislations of Bermuda, and also I do believe that is very important to stress and anxiety, when it come to cold, seizing, and restraining assets, including for issues connecting to terrorism and terrorism funding.

It should be noted that loss support is not limited to what is allowed under Bermuda's domestic legislation. When it come to a UNITED STATE order, Bermuda can not surrender a certain instrumentality of nondrug offenses, because that power doesn't exist domestically. However once again, that's restricted to agencies in nondrug violation cases.

Legislator Cardin. Thanks. Let me simply ask the general question, as well as any among you can reply to it. In the Bermuda arrangement, there's an arrangement that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can deny cooperation in resources instances. We comprehend, I understand that, so I'm not being critical of that stipulation being included therein.

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Are we hindered as a result of that or is there a means in which we are able to coordinate under this treaty, even in those situations? Mr. Chairman, we believe as well as we hope we still would certainly be able to comply.

In reality, we have that experience with other countries that have actually placed similar interpretations on the shared lawful assistance obligations, and also we have actually had the ability to work out arrangements in a number of situations that permit us to obtain evidence or discuss whether the evidence is significant sufficient to move forward with some kind of further actions being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Senator, if I might just include to that, one of the reasons this treaty took as lengthy it did to bargain as well as end is since it was necessary to us to ensure that there had not been a specific limitation on help in funding instances in the treaty itself.

Swartz related to you. Which method we assume that aids preserve the principle that is very important to us, that such cooperation must be readily available, irrespective of the type of case. And we believe this has actually also birthed out with a few other nations, where despite similar worries concerning cooperation in capital situations, they have, for instance, had the ability to offer support to the nonpenalty stage of a test or one more party examination.

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They do hold the right under this treaty to deny teamwork where the United States criminal justice system is looking for capital punishment? Legislator, they hold the right under the treaty to not give help in cases that are contrary to public policy or their essential rate of interests, and they have actually informed us that they interpret that to allow them, in fatality fine cases, to work out that.

I simply wanted to make it clear that they would not be a violation of the treaty. We understand their analysis, that if there was a case pending below that we needed their aid, where, clearly, the district attorneys were looking for the death charge, Bermuda can make a decision not to work together under this treaty.

Swartz. If I might say, Mr. Chairman, significantly, the treaty would certainly call for, because this would be a rejection under Article 3 of the treaty, that initially there needed to be consultations with the United States, before that rejection could go forward. And also I believe that's an important aspect of the arrangement that Mr.

As opposed to having a specific provision, this is among a collection of conditions under which aid might be rejected after assessment, and, to name a few points, that there need to be consideration regarding whether help can be given, based on such problems as the asked for nation regards required. As well as our experience because respect has been that we frequently can discover proper guarantees to allow evidence to be generated, a minimum of for initial analysis of the significance of proof in the instance on the whole.

As well as I believe that would certainly be helpful for us to have that information in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. foreign tax credit. We would certainly rejoice to provide that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest job here, given that this contract was previously accepted by this committee. As I claimed in my opening, we accepted it also late in the 111th Congress for activity.

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Have there been any considerable modifications in our financial investment partnership with Rwanda because last November when you offered statement on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have actually seen given that last November is a boost in United States investment in Rwanda, and also I can provide you a few examples.

Likewise, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a significant resort in Kigali. As well as, likewise, Marriott Hotels is entering to help with the country's growing friendliness market. So I would certainly say that, provided this pattern of boosted financial investment, that it is crucial that the protections be afforded for them.

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You additionally discussed the fact that the United States is exploring other bilateral investment treaties in Africa. I assume we have 5 existing reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply share with us various other countries that the United States has shown rate of interest in negotiating treaties?



I believe that finishes the questioning. I do appreciate your persistence with the board and thank you very much for your testament today.

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As established out below, we would certainly like to provide upgraded information on reported UNITED STATE investment activity in Rwanda. In 2009, the stock of UNITED STATE foreign direct financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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And I assume that would certainly be handy for us to have that info in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. We 'd rejoice to provide that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest work here, considering that this arrangement was previously accepted by this committee. As I claimed in my opening, we accepted it as well late in the 111th Congress for action.

Have there been any significant adjustments in our investment relationship with Rwanda considering that last November when you provided testimony on this treaty? What we have seen because last November is a rise in United States investment in Rwanda, and I can give you a couple of instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major hotel in Kigali. And also, additionally, Marriott Hotels is entering to help with the nation's expanding friendliness industry. I would state that, provided this pattern of raised financial investment, that it is important that the securities be afforded for them.

financiers. Legislator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thanks for that. You also stated the truth that the United States is checking out other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you discussed one various other nation. I assume we have five present reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us other countries that the United States has shown passion in bargaining treaties? Ms.

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Legislator Cardin. Thank you. I've been told by the staff that I should ask the concern of whether the management still supports the Senate adoption of the Rwanda treaty, because it was held over from the last Congress. For the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We definitely do. Senator Cardin.

I assume that finishes the examining. We might have some added concerns for the document. As you recognize, the document stays open for 1 day, so you get a break. That's a rather rapid turn-around time for this committee. I do value your perseverance with the board and also thank you extremely a lot for your statement today.

Answer. As set out below, we would love to provide updated information on reported U.S. investment task in Rwanda. Aside from these updates, the responses supplied by the Department's witness in the 111th Congress continue to be exact. In 2009, the supply of UNITED STATE foreign direct financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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